Are you German? BAIC wants you
Beijing Auto Industry Corporation are waking up from a 50 year slumber, the last time they independtly developed their own series of cars was when Mao himself instructed them to do so, but in recent years they are clawing back their mantle as of China’s biggest and best auto manufacturers. BAIC set up joint ventures with Mercedes, Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai, only Mercedes and Hyundai remain in partnership with BAIC but it has filled their coffers to the point where BAIC are eager to start their own brand. BAIC bought the Saab 93 and 95 platforms from Saab last year and are planning to put them into production as their own car later this year and will see the market in 2012, they are also working on smaller cars and electric cars.
To put forward their plans, BAIC are looking for external help. Until May 25th BAIC are in Stuttgart and looking to hire young talent from local universities and research institutions in a bid to further its own brand. According to BAIC, the company already has more than 20 senior executives from the US and Europe under its corporate banner and also 120 Chinese staff that have lived and worked overseas at some point.
BAIC are looking for 70 members of new staff, 54 positions are at senior levels and include areas such as assembling technology, automotive electronic, new energy electric and other related areas.
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Hope that also included PR.
and a designer for their SUV’s.
John Rabe was an Siemens engineer and a Nazi party member living and working in Nanjing. During the Rape of Nanjing he became a foreigner hero, rescuing scores of would-be victims. China has had a deep and abiding respect for the German people from that time.
Maybe it isn’t a coincidence that VW has been so successful there since 1973.
@dragin, you are absolutely right.
German, unlike Japanese or Korean, were willing to invest in China at that time when Uncle Sam did not allow its DOGS to do so. After seeing the success of VW, both the Japanese and Korean realized that they were misleaded by the US when GM did start a JV with SAIC in the early ninties.
History was unfolding in such a way that now all the US, Japanese and Korean are doing well in China reducing the dominance of the German. Both the Japanese & Korean auto industry are heavily influenced by the German, so ALL Chinese know that German cars are the best. If they can afford, they will surely buy a German car. Japanese cars are the next best and Korean cars are in the bottom of the list. American cars are more welcomed than the Korean in the public sector – I am not talking about the fleet sales.
This is the general situation on the Chinese auto market.
@ hk
> so ALL Chinese know that German cars are the best.
German cars suffer from quality problems, so this is why Consumer Report doesn’t recomment German brand cars to consumers in the US.
> Japanese cars are the next best and Korean cars are in the bottom of the list.
Yet Hyundai and Kia are busy expanding their production capacity in China due to strong market demand, while you don’t hear any production capacity expansion news from Honda, Mazda, Subaru and so on.
> This is the general situation on the Chinese auto market.
Which doesn’t reflect the reality of Chinese auto market. Except VW, of course.
Anyhow, Hyundai and Kia are planning their fourth and third plants in China right now due to an explosive Chinese market demand for their vehicles.
When Hyundai’s fourth and Kia’s third Chinese plants go operational, Hyundai-Kia’s Chinese production capacity rises to 2.1 million vehicles per year.
By comparison, Toyota has no plan for a production capacity expansion through 2015 and will stay at 1 million vehicles. Ditto for Honda.
“Yet Hyundai and Kia are busy expanding their production capacity in China due to strong market demand, while you don’t hear any production capacity expansion news from Honda, Mazda, Subaru and so on.”
Doesn’t change the fact they are still below the Germans, Americans, and Japanese.
“German cars suffer from quality problems, so this is why Consumer Report doesn’t recomment German brand cars to consumers in the US.”
So do the Japanese and Koreans. The Japanese may be superior in terms of overall quality, but quality is far from the only thing consumers look at when purchasing cars. In China, German brands are almost synonymous with the term luxury, which is something shared by none of the rest I’ve mentioned. Going one step further, you can even say the kind of vehicle one owns serves as a symbol of status, and the Germans are just that much higher when compared to similar models from Japan, the States and etc.
@ Ed
> Doesn’t change the fact they are still below the Germans, Americans, and Japanese.
Germans, OK.
Japanese, no. A Japanese car of 2011 definitely feels “cheaper” than a Korean car of 2011 when you sit in them. This is the reason for Korean car sales boom in the US in 2011.
American, well Chevrolet passenger cars are Korea engineered nowadays. GM’s survival strategy was to become “Korean” which boosted interior design and quality.
> So do the Japanese and Koreans.
Not according to JD Power’s Quality survey and Consumer Reports auto guide.
> In China, German brands are almost synonymous with the term luxury, which is something shared by none of the rest I’ve mentioned.
Chinese haven’t owned German cars long enough to experience the inconvenience of their poor reliability like Americans have excluding Porsche.(Porsche have a reputation for excellent reliability, while VW, BMW and Mercedes are just terrible.) Chinese will soon find out.
It always seems a bit strange that the German cars are held so high in China. Must be because VW has been here so long. VW cars are so boring. Then Audi is barely a step up from how boring VW is. That really has to be why their sales have never taken off in the U.S. My friend was trying to get me to look at VW to buy recently and to me I see nothing more exciting than Mitsubishi or Mazda in their cars. BMW is the only one I think I would consider. BMW is rated the highest out of them all for quality in reliability with Mercedes at the bottom. Most luxury cars aren’t rated that high for reliability other than Lexus and Acura and then you get back a bit into boring.
No, I don’t see it that way HK. When it comes to rescue heroics, although delayed, the U.S. also responded to China’s SOS call for help. Among military aid of various kinds, during the world war it gave help especially in the defense of the then threatened interior capital of Chongqing, saving many.
Later on, following China’s thawing of relations with the West, the U.S., unlike Germany, placed restrictions on its business community out of a concern for human rights in China. A concern that it hoped Korea and Japan might also recognize.
Later, in the post Tiananmen era, the U.S. government finally loosened those restrictions, allowing corporations like GM and Boeing to do business in China on an equal footing with Germany and others.
And so now I hope that BAIC might expand its recruiting to Detroit where lots of superb talent awaits.
@dragin, I think we are talking different subjects. That is the reason why there is some mis-understanding.
I am talking about the automobile history in China during CCP period and you are talking about WWII history during KMT period.
Anyway, the German are generally welcomed by ALL Chinese but the Japanese are REALLY…………………
“are really….”
under tough scrutiny in China, is what I think you wanted to say HK.
And for good reason, it will take them a long time to live down that wartime legacy. But as we all know China could have swallowed Japan in a heartbeat, back before its demise under the foreign occupation of the last dynasty. Instead it encouraged the then little island kingdom to behave and pay tribute.
But the point I wanted to make above is that it was human rights principles that delayed the entry of U.S. fdi into China. The German government imposed no such restrictions on its business.
That being said, the Germans, from the very start, really did their cross-cultural homework and are now reaping the benefits.
@ dragin
> But as we all know China could have swallowed Japan in a heartbeat,
China in its entire 4,000 year history was never in position to land in Japan, much less swallow and that can’t be done even today. You do not understand what it takes to land in Japan; just ask Americans.
> back before its demise under the foreign occupation of the last dynasty.
The last dynasty itself was the foreign occupation of China.
> Instead it encouraged the then little island kingdom to behave and pay tribute.
Tokugawa Shogunate did not practice tributary trade with Qing.
> But the point I wanted to make above is that it was human rights principles that delayed the entry of U.S. fdi into China. The German government imposed no such restrictions on its business.
And this is what puts America on such a moral high ground, the source of American influences around the world.
>China in its entire 4,000 year history was never in position to land in Japan, much less swallow and that can’t be done even today. You do not understand what it takes to land in Japan; just ask Americans.
We don’t know what would have happened in 1274 and 1281 under the Mongols, and well equipped with fine craft of Korean making, if the “kamikaze” did not interfere on both occassions.
And for example, following the “Im Jin Wae Nan”, the same fine craft and a loyalty to the Ming, could have pursued the retreating invaders back to the islands, and rendered a different outcome. But the Chinese were not belligerent enough, i.e. never had a heart for that kind of conquest, and thus Korea too was spared being swallowed.
>The last dynasty itself was the foreign occupation of China.
Yes, I could have used a better choice of words to convey what you said well.
>Tokugawa Shogunate did not practice tributary trade with Qing.
You are right but down through history there were lulls in that defiant posture e.g. the reign of Yoshimitsu.
@ dragin
> if the “kamikaze” did not interfere on both occassions.
Several Typhoons visit Japan every year. Any invading army whose ships could not survive Typhoons could not succeed in the Invasion of Japan. And Chinese did not have sturdy ships that could survive Typhoons.
> could have pursued the retreating invaders back to the islands, and rendered a different outcome.
Only the Liaodong legion of Ming army specializing in anti-Manchu warfare were effective against the Japanese group troops, but this legion took a heavy loss during the initial assault and retreated back to Liaodong. Follow-up Ming troops from mainland were useless in combat and their only mission was to hold the line with their sheer numbers, not to drive out Japanese who could not be defeated in ground combat.
“…Chinese did not have sturdy ships that could survive Typhoons.”
In fact most of those Mongol invasion ships were forced Korean labor-made. They were well made, as were the defending ships that drove off the Hidyeoshi invasion. But the force of typhoons were more than any ships of that time could endure.
” Follow-up Ming troops from mainland were useless in combat and their only mission was to hold the line with their sheer numbers, not to drive out Japanese who could not be defeated in ground combat.”
So here I understand you to say that it was only the force of the excellent Korean Navy that succeeded in driving the invaders back.
@ dragin
> In fact most of those Mongol invasion ships were forced Korean labor-made.
Not at all. In the first invasion, only 200 out of 850 ships from Korea were lost to Typhoon.
Out of 4400 ships comprising the second invasion force, once again 900 were from Korea carrying 27,000 Mongol + Korean troops, and 3,500 were from China carrying 100K former Song dynasty Chinese troops.
Half of Korean ships survived the Typhoon, but most of Chinese ships didn’t due to construction differences. This alone shows that Chinese was not in a position to invade Japan because they didn’t have ships strong enough to survive Typhoon throughout history.
> So here I understand you to say that it was only the force of the excellent Korean Navy that succeeded in driving the invaders back.
Yes. Japanese were unstoppable in ground combat, but their supply line was cut off by the Korean naval blockade and this is why they couldn’t advance forward.
Had this naval blockade failed, the force that would have conquered Ming would be Hideyoshi, not Nurhaci.
Oh well, another topic change.
CCT is for Chinese auto news, not a KOREAN history website !!!!!
To my understanding, the giant Hyundai Group employs many German talents to help build its auto industry. Are Korean engineers, just by themselves ONLY, that smart to develop the present-day Korean Auto Industry? I doubt it….. Even the Japanese have to learn from the German, what kind of PRIDE do the Korean engineers have ?????
As far as the high demand in Korean cars in China, I would say the biggest growth is in the fleet sales for ” TAXI “. I have talk to many taxi drivers and they complain the high fuel consumption of those last generation Sonata. They have to use Sonata because the taxi companies have bought them “CHEAP” in large orders.
That answers IHC the reason for such high demand for Korean cars in China. If the taxi drivers can choose, they will use last generation Toyota Corolla instead for low fuel consumption and high mobilities. I can see a lot of Corolla taxis in Shenzhen areas…………….
@ hk
> To my understanding, the giant Hyundai Group employs many German talents to help build its auto industry.
No, Hyundai does not. Hyundai-Kia has a styling studio and a suspension tuning shop in Germany, but all engineering is done in Korea by an army of 10,000 engineers.
The secret behind Hyundai’s quality rise is that they do all their engineering in house, so that they know exactly what’s wrong with their car and fix problems immediately. You can’t do this when you rely on outsourced engineering or “pirate”, because you don’t understand the engineering used in your own model, and this is what GM was observing during teardown analysis of Cherys, because Chery was replicating the engineering errors that Daewoo made but Chery didn’t know they were errors.
> Are Korean engineers, just by themselves ONLY, that smart to develop the present-day Korean Auto Industry? I doubt it…
Koreans did have coaches(Mitsubishi and Mazda) in the early days, but they absorbed technology fast and starting to become completely self-reliant in engineering since mid-90s.
> As far as the high demand in Korean cars in China, I would say the biggest growth is in the fleet sales for ” TAXI “.
The taxi market must be booming in China with 2 million new taxis per year.
> They have to use Sonata because the taxi companies have bought them “CHEAP” in large orders.
Koreans cannot compete with Chinese on cheap prices. So why aren’t taxi companies buying Chinese brand taxis then?
“Koreans cannot compete with Chinese on cheap prices. So why aren’t taxi companies buying Chinese brand taxis then?”
They are.